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From the Stands podcast: San Miguel woes, Smart Gilas wins, James Yap vs. Allan Caidic

Posted by Jaemark Tordecilla on March 21, 2011 at 10:12 | Comments (26)
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In the latest episode of From the Stands, Chuck Araneta, Polo Bustamante, and Carlo Pamintuan talk about the two biggest surprises of the ongoing Commissioner's Cup: the league-leading Smart Gilas and the cellar-dwelling San Miguel. In this week's old school vs. new school, they compare two of the best sharpshooters in PBA history: Allan Caidic and James Yap.



Click on the player to listen, or download the file, or subscribe to it on iTunes or on RSS. And leave a comment, the From the Stands boys just might discuss them in the next episode, or even invite you to come along.
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Tags: B-MEG Derby Ace Llamados / Purefoods Tender Juicy Giants, Basketball, James Yap, Philippine Basketball Association, San Miguel Beermen, Smart Gilas Pilipinas National Basketball Team

Related Links:

  • From the Stands podcast: Smart Gilas talk, Old School vs. New School PBA
  • From the Stands: Air 21-San Miguel talk
  • From the Stands: PBA Commissioner’s Cup, NBA All-Star Game, Gilas, and D-League
  • Presenting the From the Stands podcast

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Comments

#1 workhorse3 on 2011-03-21 12:43 (Reply)
I haven't watched Caidic in his prime, but one player who comes to my mind who *possibly* has the same game (or close to) as Caidic's is... Renren Ritualo. Caidic once said that it's Ritualo who could probably beat his scoring records, and hey, Ritualo was scoring in 30s with Air21 (part 1; well they had Gary David, Tubid, de Ocampo in that line-up as well) before being traded to Talk 'n Text. I watched the Air21-Red Bull game in 2005 (Apr 29) back then when Ritualo scored 8 triples in the 4th quarter alone.

So that said, I'll probably compare (prime) James Yap to (prime) Ritualo. Chot picked Ritualo over Yap for the Tokushima games. I'll probably pick James Yap because of his defense and all around offensive player. I don't know if Caidic had the same defense or triple-thread offense as Yap.

One thing that crossed my mind though is trading Gary David for James Yap. Both are scorers. Can Yap carry his team with Powerade dinosaurs around him?

Sorry, I hope this comparison isn't like the Canaleta-Ravena comparison that retireQuinito raised in Twitter.
#1.1 workhorse3 on 2011-03-21 12:49 (Reply)
of course Ritualo and Caidic belonged to different eras (i.e defense-oriented late 90s vs. offense-oriented 80s-90s). and Caidic probably had better teammates (and a Presto ball-club committed to winning) than prime Ritualo.
#1.1.1 Allan on 2011-03-21 13:00 (Reply)
Caidic may have belonged in the "offense-oriented" era but he was also faced with superb defenders back then. i remember Romy de la Rosa sticking like glue to him. Caidic was only successful during that time because he did not allow the defense to come to him. Before the defense can setup he had already taken the shot. I.e. Fastbreak three-points.
#1.2 jaemark on 2011-03-21 13:17 (Reply)
Caidic/Ritualo is a terrible comparison, because Ritualo isn't nearly as tall or athletic as Caidic. He's probably just as good a shooter, but he can't get his shot off as well as Caidic.

Back in the amateurs, Caidic was a slam-dunking small forward. In the pros, apart from his three-point shooting, he developed a solid low-post/mid-post game; he would punish smaller defenders by taking them low and shooting over them.
#1.2.1 workhorse3 on 2011-03-21 13:29 (Reply)
that's just my opinion, as I have said I haven't watched Caidic on his prime. :-)

that said, who's your pick Jae? Caidic or Yap?
#1.2.1.1 jaemark on 2011-03-21 13:32 (Reply)
Caidic (and remember, I'm a Purefoods fan).

But I'm not sure Caidic/Yap is a fair comparison, especially since Yap isn't nearly the shooter Caidic is, despite the former's reputation.

I think a more apt comparison for James Exhusband would be Vergel Meneses and Kenneth Duremdes, who are similar in size and athleticism. James Yap compares favorably to those guys. I should write about that one of these days.
#2 Allan on 2011-03-21 13:07 (Reply)
Guys you may probably forgotten that Allan Caidic led Presto to the 1990 All Filipino Cup vs Purefoods which they won by 4-2. During that time the only good teamate that he had was Arnie Tuadles. They were ably supported by Cadel Mosqueda, Padim Ysrael, Onche de la Cruz, Manny Victorino and Totoy Marquez. With this suppoting role I think you can also call Caidic a franchise player. He has proven himself internationally as well as being regraded as one of Asia's top offensive player. James Yap may have a thousand of moves to put the ball in the hoop, but Cidic was more consistent. He knew only one way to score and he mastered it.

1990 All Filipino Cup Champion

RECORDS
MOST PTS. IN A GAME (79)
MOST PTS. IN A HALF (53)
MOST PTS. IN A QUARTER (37)
MOST 3PT. SHOT MADE IN A GAME (17)
MOST CONSECUTIVE 3PT. SHOT MADE IN A GAME (8)
ALL TIME CONSECUTIVE FREE THROWS MADE (76)
#2.1 jaemark on 2011-03-21 13:14 (Reply)
"During that time the only good teamate that he had was Arnie Tuadles."

Brush up on your history first. That Presto team had Abe King, who was still one of the best forwards in the game, and a young defensive center Zaldy Realubit. The team also had a good rookie duo in Gerry Esplana and Apet Jao. Esplana ended up winning ROY.
#2.1.1 Nomad on 2011-03-21 16:26 (Reply)
jae, you forgot to point out that it was 4-3.

yeah, it's a mortal sin to forget about King, one of the best defensive forwards in pba history that even cap alvin would find it hard to score against.

a little trivia: onchie, padim and totoy were part of the lineup of purefoods in its maiden season/conference in the pba.

then abe king would help coney island/purefoods to win 2 titles.

and realubit would suit up for purefoods in his final pba season (not sure).
#2.1.1.1 workhorse3 on 2011-03-21 19:16 (Reply)
i read in my 1990 annual though that Caidic didn't suit up for Game 7 vs. Shell. Tuadles (RIP) carried the team and he got traded to shell eventually.
#2.1.1.1.1 workhorse3 on 2011-03-21 19:22 (Reply)
baliktad pala. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990_PBA_season
#2.1.1.1.2 workhorse3 on 2011-03-21 19:26 (Reply)
and it was Presto vs. Shell. Shell vs. Anejo in the first conference.

The PF game in the third conference was vs. Alaska. Alaska led 2-0 but PF caught up, thanks to Al Solis' trey in the dying seconds. Just lifted from the PBA annual, but i'm sure Jae the Purefoods fan can recall that.
#2.1.1.1.2.1 jaemark on 2011-03-21 19:30 (Reply)
2nd conference was Presto vs. Purefoods. Remember, Purefoods had that amazing run of being in the All-Filipino finals every year from 1988 to 1994.

Shell vs. Anejo yung first conference. You're a Ginebra fan, so you probably remember that as the Rudy Distrito series.
#2.1.1.1.2.1.1 workhorse3 on 2011-03-22 02:22 (Reply)
ah, my bad. it was PF vs. Presto in the 1990 All Filipino. Shell without Parks did it for them.

dug up some interesting info on my annual:
Final score: 115-96
rebounds: 55-47 (Abe King - 14, Realubit 9)
FG Shooting: 55%-27%
Tuadles: 33pts 6 rebs 3 assists 2 blocks 2 steals.

Got an idea though but this merits another discussion: what if you pit Presto 1990 vs. Purefoods 2006 (or 2010)? Baka ma-outcoach ni the Genius si Jimmy Mariano hehe
#2.1.1.1.2.1.1.1 Nomad on 2011-03-22 07:47 (Reply)
malabong mangyari yun.
sa tingin mo ba, mas malakas pa yung sa combo nina alvin, jerry, jolas, nelson, dindo, glenn, solis, tanuan ang team nina james, kerby, ping, rey, limpot, paul, roger, pj?
#2.1.1.1.2.2 jaemark on 2011-03-21 19:31 (Reply)
Ah crap. 1991 pala yung Rudy Distrito series, hehe. 1990, walkout series pala.
#3 no namer on 2011-03-21 18:14 (Reply)
triggerman all the way...
#4 gilazkals on 2011-03-21 22:15 (Reply)
nasa delivery room yung asawa ni caidic at nag-lalabor dun...He buried Anejo rum ng 15 triples.....Si Lolo Jawo nanood na lang at na-entertain sa kanya.
#5 Cygin on 2011-03-22 11:09 (Reply)
Caidic all the way!! No one in this era is comparable to Caidic.. Not even James Yap.. base it on Statistics and accomplishments! and James Yap is overhyped.... sumikat lang dahil kay Kris Aquino!!! ahahahaha
#5.1 Nomad on 2011-03-22 19:10 (Reply)
so you have not seen him play in the UAAP when he had that cult following.

back then, his career was already leading to superstardom.
#5.1.1 CyGin on 2011-03-23 09:06 (Reply)
Im comparing the two when they're in the PBA already.. la akong paki kung sikat sya sa UAAP. eh Madaming sikat nung college pero nung nasa PBA na sila wala na.. get d point????
#5.1.1.1 Nomad on 2011-03-23 09:55 (Reply)
hahaha
di pa ba sikat si JY?
nakisakay lang kaya si Kris. hahaha
#5.1.1.1.1 CYGIN on 2011-03-23 12:14 (Reply)
WATEVER!hahahaha talo parin ni Caidic si JY!
#6 dimes on 2011-03-22 14:21 (Reply)
James Yap is not a shooter but rather a scorer. Coming off of picks id rather give the ball to Hontiveros then him on the wing. But then again according to Quinito parang Jordan si James Yap.

and since im commenting here for the first time..Quinito and Doctor J suck! Please never put them on the mic ever again!

Talk n Text ruined Ritualos career. Guy wasnt the same when he moved there after such a stellar career in college and Air 21. A lot like the PBAs own JJ Reddick.
#7 Jaywalker on 2011-03-22 14:50 (Reply)
Sorry, but I have to go with Caidic all the way. IMHO, i have to agree with one poster here, the defense back then was way more harder and rugged compared to today. Yes, the players now are bigger BUT they are not as rugged and as hard-nosed as those of the good ole days.

Watching tapes and being born during the hay days of the Triggerman, yes offensively, he was a shoooter. But is that all he contributes to the offense? No. He did other things and was a creator of some of the offensive sets for his team.

James Yap's edge over the triggerman? He could manufacture shots with his GINORMOUS HANDS, but to say THAT makes him a franchise player vs Caidic. I dont think so.
#8 MiRON on 2011-03-24 15:57 (Reply)
When talking about greatest shooter in PBA history, no doubt its the TRIGGERMAN Allan Caidic and he's incomparable to no one. He has that smooth shootimg touch that comes in bunches when he's all fired up. On the other hand, James Yup is a player destined to stardom. He's got that superb athletic ability that earned him the monicker "The Man w/ a million moves" by our sports commentators. But is he as great a shooter like Caidic? My opinion is a big NO! wala sa kalingkingan ni Caidic when it comes to shooting. In salitang kanto, matigas tumira. he also has to throw a lot of shots until he gets his feel. he scores a lot because the offense is anchored on him. Try to put him in a team like Alaska Aces- where the a a lot of option in their triangle offense. lets see if Yap could score like what he's doing w/ his team. Looking at their shooting strokes, you could already notice that Caidic is a better shooter. he can also be a jump shooter or do a catch and shoot and if he gets tired, would just be a spot up/ set shooter. Thats technique for you. While Yap does his thing through slicing in the middle and taking off with that off-timing jump, Caidic does pure shooting and sometimes playing at the post.
Question is, WHO IS THE GREATER PLAYER? Its still Caidic bcos he already had that reputation of being one of the best shooters in Asia. and has lead a Philippine team to an ABC Title(now FIBA-Asia Championship) while James Yap is hardly a presense in Tianjin joust. Miller and Baguio even had the bigger impact and you would hear commentators of ESPN being wowed by their moves.
James Yap could be great someday no doubt but no in the caliber of the one and only TRIGGERMAN of Philippine basketball.

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Snape's Advocate about Krip Yuson is a plagiarist AND a jackass
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I'm with dotcom on this, so, b roski, these next few lines a' int for you, a'ight? Haha, all these bullshit comme [...]
KC about Smart Gilas places fourth in the 2011 FIBA-Asia Champions Cup
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all comment are interesting. Y ou know guys since early 2010, i am watching every game Smar t Gilas (Pililpinas) los [...]
john about More on the Japeth Aguilar issue
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